{"id":8410,"date":"2025-06-23T19:45:08","date_gmt":"2025-06-23T17:45:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.deesonosehabla.com\/?page_id=8410"},"modified":"2025-06-27T09:35:42","modified_gmt":"2025-06-27T07:35:42","slug":"she-had-my-name-episode-7-the-kitchen","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.deesonosehabla.com\/en\/season-3\/she-had-my-name-episode-7-the-kitchen\/","title":{"rendered":"Transcript “She Had My Name. Episode 7: The Kitchen”"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=”full_width_background” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”80px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” bg_image=”7220″ bg_position=”center top” background_image_loading=”lazy-load” bg_repeat=”repeat” scene_position=”center” top_padding=”2%” constrain_group_1=”yes” bottom_padding=”2%” constrain_group_2=”yes” top_padding_phone=”60″ text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” enable_gradient=”true” color_overlay=”#ffffff” color_overlay_2=”#ffffff” advanced_gradient_angle=”0″ overlay_strength=”0.8″ gradient_direction=”top_to_bottom” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”relative” advanced_gradient_angle=”180″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” gradient_type=”advanced” advanced_gradient_display_type=”linear” column_padding_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”none” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” advanced_gradient_angle=”0″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” enable_animation=”true” animation=”fade-in-from-left” mobile_disable_entrance_animation=”true” animation_easing=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” gradient_type=”default” column_padding_type=”default”][nectar_responsive_text inherited_font_style=”h4″ text_direction=”default” font_size_tablet=”50″ font_size_phone=”50″]\n

She Had My Name. Episode 7: The Kitchen<\/h4>\n[\/nectar_responsive_text][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][divider line_type=”Full Width Line” line_thickness=”1″ divider_color=”extra-color-1″ divider_opacity=”41″ animate=”yes”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”none” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” top_padding=”30px” bottom_padding=”50px” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” advanced_gradient_angle=”0″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” enable_animation=”true” animation=”fade-in-from-bottom” mobile_disable_entrance_animation=”true” animation_easing=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” gradient_type=”default” column_padding_type=”default”][vc_raw_html css=””]JTVCcG9kY2FzdF9lcGlzb2RlJTIwZXBpc29kZSUzRCUyMjgzNzElMjIlMjBjb250ZW50JTNEJTIycGxheWVyJTIyJTVE[\/vc_raw_html][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”none” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” bottom_padding=”40px” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” advanced_gradient_angle=”0″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” enable_animation=”true” animation=”fade-in-from-bottom” mobile_disable_entrance_animation=”true” animation_easing=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” gradient_type=”default” column_padding_type=”default”][nectar_responsive_text inherited_font_style=”h4″ text_direction=”default”]\n

Transcript<\/h4>\n[\/nectar_responsive_text][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”40px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”40px” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” advanced_gradient_angle=”0″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1\/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” gradient_type=”default” column_padding_type=”default”][vc_column_text css=”” text_direction=”default”]Hard to believe, but we\u2019ve reached the end of this series.<\/span><\/p>\n

Normally, a story starts at the beginning, moves through the middle, and ends at the end. And, if you look at it chronologically, this story is like that: we started in June of 1960, with that suitcase bomb that killed your sister at the Amara station, then moved through the silence of your family in the 60s, in the 70s, in the 80s\u2026 And then, Lluch, the tribute, and the year 2010. And everything that came after.<\/span><\/p>\n

But, actually, there was a gap in this story: we were missing a piece: understanding where that other version of the story came from, the one that changed so much. And for that, we had to go to the origin: to that note published by the vicar of San Sebasti\u00e1n in 1992, that footnote that said that \u201cit seemed that the first victim of ETA was a 22-month-old girl, Bego\u00f1a Urroz Ibarrola.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

[Music]<\/b><\/p>\n

But, over time, we realized that the origin went beyond Vicar Pagola. And that, actually, it was much closer than we thought. And we went together to look for it.<\/span><\/p>\n

[Music]<\/b><\/p>\n

Because throughout the investigation, I did the interviews, and then came back to Lasarte, to your kitchen, and told you and Juanlu what people had told me. And that\u2019s where we would talk, connect the dots, build this puzzle. But there were two interviews I didn\u2019t do alone. That we did together.<\/span><\/p>\n

And just as I knew we had to do those interviews together, I also know that now is the time for you to tell your story too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> With this voice of mine?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego<\/b>: I don\u2019t know if it\u2019ll come out like yours. Your voice is sweeter.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> It\u2019ll come out differently. In your voice. She didn\u2019t say no!<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> What, did you think she\u2019d say no or what? What are you afraid of?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego: <\/b>Me, I\u2019m afraid, me, with this voice.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>Do you want to narrate the last episode with me?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Oh\u2026 Let\u2019s try, okay? We\u2019ll try, huh?<\/span><\/p>\n

So, to end this series, we traded your kitchen for a recording studio\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Yes. Okay, bagoaz.<\/span><\/p>\n

And we began.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Welcome to <\/span>She Had My Name<\/span><\/i>. A documentary series about my sister, Bego\u00f1a Urroz, my family\u2019s silence, and the noise that broke it. A series from <\/span>(De eso no se habla)<\/span><\/i>\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>\u2026 in co-production with EITB Media and with support from the Ministry of Culture.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> I\u2019m Bego\u00f1a Urroz.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> And I\u2019m Isabel Cadenas Ca\u00f1\u00f3n.<\/span><\/p>\n

And this is the last episode: <\/span>The Kitchen<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Yes, you\u2019re on.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Do I seem tense to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel<\/b>: No, the opposite. I see you really empowered.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego<\/b>: Well, yes, maybe because I\u2019m calm. I don\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>Yes, I see you very\u2026 Right? What do you think?<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Empowered, as it should be.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

[Music]<\/b><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> No, it\u2019s not far, about 20 minutes\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> At first, it seemed obvious where we had to go to look for that origin.<\/span><\/p>\n

GPS<\/b>: In 300 meters, turn left.<\/span><\/p>\n

We went, of course, to see Vicar Pagola.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>We went by car, my husband drove us. I was nervous and at the same time, well, excited to see him, because after hearing so much about him, that footnote\u2026 So I thought, well, let\u2019s see, let\u2019s see what he\u2019s like, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> That day it was raining a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> A lot.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> We got out of the car running and reached this kind of covered entrance.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Covered entrance.<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>We rang the bell\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>Yes\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Hello, Jos\u00e9 Antonio. We\u2019re waiting for you downstairs.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>When I saw him, I don\u2019t know if it was because of who he was or because of the topic we were there to discuss, but I went to give him a hug.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> So happy to meet you.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Pagola took us to his office\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> A very cozy space.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> And you\u2019ve come with your husband.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, because my husband\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> He\u2019s nice, a nice husband.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> And there we sat, the four of us, around that table. And well, we started talking.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego: <\/b>If Isabel and my mother knew I\u2019m sitting at a table with you, they\u2019d say\u2026 Well, with <\/span>you<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> It\u2019s getting there, little by little\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> You<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>I kept calling him <\/span>usted<\/span><\/i> and he\u2019d say \u201cNo, please.\u201d And I\u2019d slip up again.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, they\u2019d be happy, they\u2019d say \u201cOh, Bego, look how you managed to talk to the priest.\u201d Of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>Did you ever try, Bego? To talk to him?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego: <\/b>Well, no, because… To me, you seemed like such an important person\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola: <\/b>But one must be humble (laughs).<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> How long were you vicar? <\/span>Were<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>were<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>were<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> I was general vicar when Setien was around.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Ah, Setien, of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> \u201cSetien,\u201d we say. \u201cAh, Setien.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel: <\/b>No more, no less\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Indeed, Setien had quite a reputation\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> He was bishop of San Sebasti\u00e1n during the hardest years of ETA\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Well, they accused him of everything in the end too, accused him of being both for and against ETA, I mean, it was\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yes, Setien was a very important figure in the Basque issue, but to explain his role we\u2019d need another podcast, so I think for this one it\u2019s enough to say that Pagola was his vicar, his number two, his shadow.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Thanks to her, because I would never have called him. I wouldn\u2019t, I would never have called you. It was Isabel, because she\u2019s doing this documentary\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B<\/b>: I say documentary, and it\u2019s not a documentary.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> It <\/span>is<\/span><\/i> a documentary, it is a documentary.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, that\u2019s true. It\u2019s true. Yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> I\u2019m discovering many things that were never said in my house, and so little by little it\u2019s coming out. And the same thing is happening with the people around me, because we didn\u2019t talk either, we didn\u2019t know and we didn\u2019t talk.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Ernest Lluch and Pagola were\u2026 For my mother, they were the people who held onto that memory, the people who were there in her daughter\u2019s story. So yes, it meant a lot to me\u2014since I couldn\u2019t meet Ernest, at least I could meet Pagola.<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>Maybe that\u2019s why you told him so much.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> I mean, my parents suffered the death of a child, they suffered two, two store destructions from the bomb. All collateral damage\u2014they weren\u2019t the target, obviously, but the bank got bombed, the shop destroyed. Another day, another bomb, destroyed. So my father died in 2008 in absolute silence, with no recognition, I mean, with a pain\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Of course, and suffering. Suffering at home.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> And suffering. And staying quiet, and shutting their mouths. Not speaking.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola: <\/b>Of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego: <\/b>Not telling, like\u2026 There were times\u2026 Not now, but. But in those years when parents didn\u2019t say anything and mine didn\u2019t dare say anything\u2026 Sometimes you feel guilty,<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> That\u2019s the worst part\u2014not knowing, the not knowing and the ostracism that\u2019s always there\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>Yes, yes, I think so. I think it\u2019s important that people know. I think a bit. All the families of victims, they all want to know… The thing is, it took me a long time to want to reach that point.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Your mother?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> This is the mother. This was the girl who was killed.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> You even showed him some photos of your family.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> My sister. And this was my father.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Ah, yes, the photo.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> My mother, my father and the girl. And then a photo of the girl alone.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Well I\u2026 Let\u2019s see, no\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>But of course, we also talked about that note he had written in 1992.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>From the moment he published that note, this whole story started, right? Lluch\u2026 The whole story came out, so it really was a key moment\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> I remember that for years in Lasarte, people thought it was ETA.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>Pagola told us that: he didn\u2019t remember clearly, but for him, everyone in town thought it had been ETA. And he also told us he had spoken about your sister\u2019s case with someone else.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>Yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>With Lluch.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Well, Ernest Lluch came to see me in San Sebasti\u00e1n\u2026 He was working on some kind of history of ETA and he came to me, and I told him that I had the impression it was ETA. We had a lot of contact because he asked me many things, and so\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>So yes, Ernest Lluch had consulted with Vicar Pagola. But of course, the question was how the story had reached him.<\/span><\/p>\n

B: <\/b>Through whom? Right? That was the question we wanted to ask him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> The thing is, you must have found out around the time you wrote the note, right? Because otherwise, you would have said so earlier. In \u201992.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Ah, of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> He wouldn\u2019t have known earlier, otherwise he would have said so earlier too, right? Of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> I don\u2019t remember anymore.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Right, right. That\u2019s normal.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Now I get into so many messes\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I: <\/b>But Pagola didn\u2019t remember exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> He couldn\u2019t tell us where it had come from, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> He thought maybe the mayor, maybe the civil governor, or\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Or maybe a catechist.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Or maybe a catechist.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> I\u2019m 87 years old.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> You remember quite a lot, actually.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> I\u2019m honestly amazed at how well you\u2019re doing. I mean\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> When we went to talk to him, Pagola was 87 years old, had published around 30 books, and I thought maybe we had arrived too late, that a few years earlier he might have been able to tell us more. Or maybe not. Because if I\u2019ve learned anything in this series, it\u2019s that everyone remembers history based on what they know today, and sometimes it\u2019s hard to recall something that was important to one person but not to another.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> You know what? Nobody remembers anything. In this story\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yeah, nobody remembers.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Don\u2019t worry, you\u2019re not the only one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> No, no.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> It\u2019s just that I was focused on other things. I\u2019m still, look, publishing books.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Really?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And it\u2019s true that he said to us, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve written many books before and after\u2026\u201d And it\u2019s true that for him this was just a speck\u2026 A footnote that was a speck\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> A speck, exactly. It was a small thing compared to everything else he\u2019s experienced. So, well, it\u2019s understandable.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, it\u2019s been a real pleasure.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And once we had achieved our goals, we started to leave.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> The light\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> When we left his office, after saying goodbye\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Eskerrik asko.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pagola:<\/b> Bai.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> The rain had stopped.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> The rain\u2019s stopped! Agur\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Agur.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> And in the car, well, we didn\u2019t stop talking.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> As always.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> As always.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> \u2026 That day. And back then, what the Vicar said\u2014like I always say, the mayor, the priest, etc.\u2014that was what mattered most. So, if he said it, how were we going to question it? It was a different sphere. Now, of course, I see him as much more approachable. So yes, it was really meaningful for me. You feel supported, you feel comfortable in a calm place\u2026 A bit like remembering Isabel\u2019s kitchen, where you gather and talk <\/span>goxo<\/span><\/i>\u2026 So I think it was a very pleasant moment\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> In that conversation we realized that to understand what had happened, it wasn\u2019t enough to talk to Pagola. We had to pull on the thread a bit more.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> We needed to know where the source came from.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> The source that he, let\u2019s say, relied on to publish that footnote.<\/span><\/p>\n

Because even though Pagola didn\u2019t quite remember, we had always had a suspicion.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> The thing is\u2026 I\u2019ve been reviewing our conversation, our conversations, and you know, all the time they talked about the catechist.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> The catechist.<\/span><\/p>\n

[Music]<\/b><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Re-reading the sources of this story, we realized that someone had confirmed that suspicion. It was Jes\u00fas Duva, in his 2010 article in <\/span>El Pa\u00eds<\/span><\/i>. And in it, he said that while he was talking to your mother, your neighbor\u2014the catechist\u2014arrived, and it was she who told him that she had told the story to Vicar Pagola.<\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019ve talked many times in your kitchen about that catechist.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> No, if he relied on the catechist, then that source isn\u2019t reliable. The catechist had said that ETA\u2019s first victim was Bego\u00f1a Urroz, so in the end, it all just becomes a bit of a mess\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> But until a certain moment, I didn\u2019t realize that this catechist was your next-door neighbor, Isabel, the owner of the kitchen thanks to whom I met you. Was that always clear to you, Bego?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> That the catechist was her? Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And maybe it was me who didn\u2019t make the connection that the catechist was the same person as Isabel. How wild. Because it seems not, it\u2019s like\u2026 Of course, in my head, when you said “the catechist” but not Isabel, to me they were two different people.<\/span><\/p>\n

Two different people who suddenly became one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Recording. Nora goaz? (Let\u2019s go, Nora?)<\/span><\/p>\n

So this story can only end where it began.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, let\u2019s go to Isabel\u2019s house.<\/span><\/p>\n

Going to Isabel\u2019s kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> I call her Mendiluce, Mendiluce is her\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Where suddenly three things came together: that kitchen where I met you, the catechist who, supposedly, had told the story to Pagola\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> \u2026Many years ago. And we live door to door, well, neighbors of the ama.<\/span><\/p>\n

And your mother\u2019s neighbor.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> So, let\u2019s see how she\u2019s doing. She\u2019s a bit old too\u2026 Let\u2019s see.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Bego, so this is your house?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> This is my house. Well, it was my house because we already sold it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, well, we grew up there. My parents came from Navarra and it was the first, the only apartment they bought.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> It wasn\u2019t easy to talk to Isabel.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> No, because she was sick. She was delicate, so, of course, we had to find the right moment. We talked with her daughter about the right moment to speak\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

[Intercom]<\/b><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Arancha, Kaixo Bego, now, ready.<\/span><\/p>\n

And in the end, her daughter Arantza told us to come over one day for coffee, just a little while, so Isabel wouldn\u2019t get tired.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> This is your building for life.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> All my life. I was born here, my sister when she died came down here.<\/span><\/p>\n

(Greetings)<\/b><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Kaixo Isabel!<\/span><\/p>\n

(Basque)<\/b><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> And of course, we went straight to the kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> This kitchen has character, right? More than that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> A cozy place. A calm, calm place where you can talk.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> How nice to hear her, to hear her voice.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Isabel.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, yes. What a shame my mother\u2019s voice isn\u2019t heard too. Both of them talking.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> And it makes me sad to come here because I know that house is where I lived. And when I walk by, I look.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Hearing both of them would have been the ultimate. But well, I imagine it, come on, I\u2019m going to imagine it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Come on, let\u2019s imagine it.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> It\u2019s there.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> We used to communicate with your mother\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> We used to knock.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> For what? What was it for? It was usually for her to look out the window.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> At the balcony\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Some errands.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Some errands, and we would knock here on the wall, knock, knock, and the other would hear.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, that\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> And they would come to the window and communicate…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Now neighbors…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> What memories.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> …in this hallway. She used to walk, run, or half-run.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Half-run. Look at what a long hallway, you\u2019ve seen how it is.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes. Very long.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> When they went shopping, when your mother went shopping, she left the child here, my grandmother…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Imagine her running down a long hallway. You were in that hallway. Imagine her running.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> The thing is we were very close friends.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> I love that she says \u201cvery close friends,\u201d it sounds so youthful, right? She says \u201cvery close friends\u201d in such a way…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, yes, it\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> The ama and I used to be alone too and \u201cHey Jesusa, come, come, let\u2019s\u2026 even if it\u2019s just grapes.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> While we were with Ixabel, the phone rang and Arantza went to answer. Suddenly, in the middle of so many beautiful things, the conversation changed.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes, yes, we enjoyed a lot. And later, sorrows too, huh?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Sorrows too, yes. What sorrows, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> What pain, what pain.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, right? Sorrows too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Sorrows too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I don\u2019t know if she told you about Ernest Lluch. Well, yes. Before knowing him, he died. Before we knew each other, before we went for coffee… And…<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> The first sad thing she remembers is about Lluch.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Lluch, yes, yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> That really struck me and also the… image. You repeat it, Isabel repeats it, it\u2019s like something that stuck with you…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, for me\u2026 I\u2026 She came crying, screaming, so… But that was the moment. A moment when, doorbell\u2026 Yes, yes, very heartbreaking.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d We were both crying…<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, you rang the doorbell and hugged each other.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> And I was in the kitchen: \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d And how you two went crazy, both screaming.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes. He was killed. Absurd. An absurd thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Like all of them, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Like all deaths, they have been absurd.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> We have suffered a lot here, a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Now, however, we have peace. Now yes. You at least are seeing, you are seeing, that we live in peace.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Something my father didn\u2019t see, nor your husband. Nobody. They didn\u2019t see that part.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> No.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Anyway, they still keep going on and on…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> On and on, on and on.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Going back, on and on. And come on, enough already. And sometimes you hear them say… That\u2019s it. The thing is, it\u2019s true, we mustn\u2019t forget. We mustn\u2019t forget. But no\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Don\u2019t beat it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Don\u2019t beat it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Don\u2019t beat it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> When you met with Isabel before, did you talk about the girl?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> No. No, no.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Had you ever asked Isabel about the girl?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> No. No, no… It was like that was another story, right? And then, like… And I repeat myself, since it wasn\u2019t talked about, I just let it go.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> It\u2019s good we went, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> When the little one died, our little one, we went that way to the cemetery. To Calvario.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> And to bury her and\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> With the coffin.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> With the little coffin of the little angel.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> And it turns out that at that burial\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Was there a crowd?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> No way.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> No, no.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Quite the opposite.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Nobody came, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Nobody came.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Ah, it was during the festivities too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> It was the San Pedro festivities.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> When they went down… My mother always says they brought the little box here to bury, and the band was passing by dancing and jumping.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> With the girl, my parents alone, from Navarra after… Just them. It must have been… You put yourself in the family\u2019s place and say, \u201cDamn, can they turn down the music, we\u2019re burying a child.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Suddenly, listening to you, I realized we were facing the only person who had known your sister, the only one who could tell us firsthand all those things you had told me because your mother had told them to you.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> We mourned together, with Jesusa, and here in this house\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Where could my mother have mourned? It was her home and here, because mourning was with those of us here. So, I mean, no one else knew, no one else found out.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Why didn\u2019t anyone else find out about that?<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> It wasn\u2019t talked about. There was… I think there was fear at that time.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> There was a lot of fear. A lot of fear here in Lasarte\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> But then in the town they didn\u2019t talk about what happened to Bego\u00f1a because they were afraid of what?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I don\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> What were we afraid of? When I hear them say, \u201cWe were afraid.\u201d What were we afraid of? We hadn\u2019t done anything, right? What were we afraid of? I hear those words and I say, \u201cWe were afraid.\u201d That\u2019s why we didn\u2019t talk. But afraid of what? As if we had done it ourselves, right? What were we afraid of?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> What were you afraid of?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Well, I don\u2019t know. I just don\u2019t know. We\u2019re talking about a little girl. It\u2019s curious, it\u2019s a question I can\u2019t answer. What were we afraid of? Not now, but back then? That people would talk, we couldn\u2019t talk. Now I would ask my mother, \u201cWhat couldn\u2019t we talk about? That the little girl had died?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Because back then, of course, people thought that… I don\u2019t even know if they knew then who it was.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> It wasn\u2019t certain, it wasn\u2019t a sure thing that it was ETA.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> ETA, look, it says it here.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> It wasn\u2019t… It wasn\u2019t sure. Later, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Later, yes? Well, sure, from what was being said…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> You see?<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Also, the person who talked about it or said something… So ETA was the one running things, basically, it was well regarded. So ETA was well regarded. So whoever criticized ETA could be seen badly in the town.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Isabel told us that at the time it wasn\u2019t certain that your sister had been killed by ETA. That later it was. But then, was she the one who told Pagola that? To talk about that, we went back, of course, to the sources.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Let me see if I have that book.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> It\u2019s Pagola\u2019s book.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> A blue one, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> We went back to read the footnote…<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Let\u2019s see, yes, let\u2019s see.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> He says: \u201cIn reality, it seems that the first victim of a terrorist action by ETA was the 22-month-old girl Bego\u00f1a Urroz Ibarrola, who died on June 27, 1960, when an explosive device placed at Amara station in San Sebasti\u00e1n detonated.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Those are the facts.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Facts, as Arantza says. Pagola said \u201cfacts.\u201d But he didn\u2019t say who told him, he didn\u2019t say who his source was. The one who did mention Pagola\u2019s source was Lluch.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> \u201cThe source on which Vicar General Pagola based himself was impeccable, and from it I was able to obtain corroborating and additional information.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Those corroborating and additional pieces of information, of course, had to be the call Lluch made one day to Isabel\u2019s house.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Well, he called both of us. Jesusa…<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Did he talk to the ama too?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I think so.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Really? I didn\u2019t know that, see, I didn\u2019t know that. I know he talked to you because it was kind of because of you…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Yes. And to the ama too. The ama was next to me on the phone.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> On the phone. Ah, okay, okay, okay. Yes, yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> And then I told the ama, \u201cHey, he\u2019s coming over for coffee,\u201d and so on.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And now we start a very interesting moment…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Arantza asks, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> All of them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Did Lluch directly ask you if you had solid proof that it was…? Or did he say, \u201cNo, I want to come to your house, and please call Jesusa\u201d…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> No, no, just coffee. To meet.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> To meet?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> To meet and to…<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> It wasn\u2019t a phone call saying \u201cHey, I heard you told this to Pagola,\u201d and \u201cHow do you know?\u201d… Did he start telling you that over the phone?<\/span><\/p>\n

And there, I don\u2019t know how you felt about it, Bego, but for me it was like Arantza had a moment of revelation about that call.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> That\u2019s why she wanted to come. Because the catechist mentioned in that book is Isabel.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> She\u2019s the mother.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> And that\u2019s why she wanted to come in person to interview the catechist, for the source. You have to go to the source.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Maybe Arantza was told something and wanted to remind her mother about it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yes. And she wasn\u2019t the only one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> And who told you?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Who told you? Someone must have told you, or someone mentioned it? Or was it just rumors? Probably rumors, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I think it was rumors.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Like they said, \u201cthis was ETA.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> You didn\u2019t have any proof, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> No, no.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> No one told you it was…<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> What was in the town, the rumors that were in the streets.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Rumors.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> You went a lot to the Br\u00edgidas too.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> The nuns.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> But they find out everything. I tell you, they find out everything.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, I mean, not that much…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> No, but…<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Yes, yes. The cloistered nuns? Oh…<\/span><\/p>\n

(Laughter)<\/b><\/p>\n

And there, Bego, while I was listening to you talk, I thought something I had never thought before. And that is that the best interviews are those in which the interviewer doesn\u2019t even have to open their mouth.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, we\u2019ve coincided here more than once already…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yeah, we talked enough ourselves. We were there with Arantza asking Isabel, her ama, and me… Well, well, there was no need.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yes. I thought that at the time, I said \u201cmaybe this is the best interview of my life and I haven\u2019t spoken.\u201d And I loved that. Well, reflections.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Pagola used to give a lot of talks. He\u2019s a… He still is a priest… He has been very popular and much loved in Gipuzkoa. And he gave several conferences in Lasarte as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Together with Setien.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> And you always went to Pagola to congratulate him or to give him…<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, or to greet him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Or to say \u201cwe have this problem, you have to come one day with this one,\u201d right? You used to exchange a lot of information with Pagola. Well, one of those conversations.<\/span><\/p>\n

And here Arantza is trying to understand the exact moment when her mother could have spoken with Pagola about your sister.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I can\u2019t be completely sure… I can\u2019t be.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Maybe back then, because…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Back then, they would say, \u201cWell yes, it was ETA.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> But solid proof?<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Well, solid proof…<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Of course, you see how his daughter insists and insists… So I think that in one of those conversations she might have said, \u201cHey, you see, what can come out of all this.\u201d But then everyone clings to that, huh?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> It\u2019s curious in this story, huh? Everyone clings to that.<\/span><\/p>\n

[Music]<\/b><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, well, she was the one, yes. In this conversation you can see it, her daughter also insists on it, and her daughter says it too. Yes, it was her. How did she get it? Well, it\u2019s implied that what was talked about in the town would have reached her as a rumor\u2026 It snowballed, she kept saying it was ETA, told Pagola and everything. So I think that\u2019s how it is.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> But do you think it was Isabel? We don\u2019t know, right? But do you think Isabel was the one who picked up the rumor, told the vicar, and then told your ama? Or the other way around, or that your family started thinking it was ETA and then your mother spoke with Isabel\u2026?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> No. I don\u2019t think so. I think not. I\u2019m not saying who was first, I can\u2019t know that, but surely, those contacts, since they were friends who talked a lot, they probably talked about it, she found out\u2026 Maybe Isabel, because she was a catechist and had contacts in associations and such at that time, probably got the rumor. She\u2019d tell that rumor to my mother, they\u2019d talk about it when they got together, \u201clook at the girl,\u201d whatever\u2026 So my mother, well, that\u2019s it\u2026 Said by Isabel, then by Pagola and then by Lluch, I think my mother there\u2026 Well, as they say, to the death, right? The expression, what they said back then\u2026 I\u2019m convinced.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> But how can you be certain about something if your own neighbors, if Arantza and Isabel themselves, didn\u2019t start to understand the weight of that silence until 2010?<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> And when it came out in the press, we started to see it and said, \u201cBut this? Why has this been kept for so long?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> So long, indeed.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> This suffering of this family.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Of course. Yes, exactly. Since then\u2026 That was a before and after. Until then, no one talked. And they too, you see, neighbors next door.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And the conversation necessarily turned to what this must have meant for your mother.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, I always remember, I have this feeling with my mother. The hiding, the not showing, the not letting anyone see. So at home, all the arguments you want, but in the street she was charming, everyone told me \u201cYour mother is charming.\u201d And that\u2019s it. I think in public, in the street, don\u2019t show anything, then…<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I think women of the past had that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Exactly, yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> The image.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> The image.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> The image.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> This part of the conversation really appeals to me, right? I don\u2019t know, it seemed like you were all trying to understand your ama.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Maybe she was unsure, but maybe… Upset with the world, with the world. \u201cThey took away my eldest daughter, I no longer have her, which is\u2026 And I have another daughter and… All that I lost with my eldest daughter.\u201d I…<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Who knows what went through her head.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> In the end, it was like a rebellion against the world. Bitter.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes. That\u2019s why the psychologists, the psychologists who came from Madrid, came to see my mother and when they finished they said \u201cIt\u2019s clear your mother has that rooted deep inside,\u201d like\u2026 Of course, a woman already 80 years old\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Elderly.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> That\u2019s why.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> But then your mother could have been angry with the whole town of Lasarte. Because what they did at the funeral, that it was time for the festivals and she… But then she went out. Your mother had a business. She was a saleswoman, she had a shoe store.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Well, I think\u2026 Nowadays, when someone is killed\u2026 Well, for years now not so much, but when there was a victim, everything stopped, tributes were made, everything, everything. People showed up, people were sensitive. Back then\u2026 So my mother had to deal with it alone. And in those other cases, at least people felt supported, right? They felt supported, recognized\u2026 From whichever side. My mother was recognized by no one but Isabel. So I think I understand that, that pain and that anger\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Who suffered more? You who saw the aita and ama. Who carried\u2026?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> The aita was very quiet. I think the mother vented more.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> However, the aita had\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> The aita\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> More inside, yes. How could he cry, right? Back then, a man\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> A man crying\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Men didn\u2019t cry.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> So he couldn\u2019t talk.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> They couldn\u2019t cry. Yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Isabel, and when they gave Bego the same name?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yes, of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> \u201cYeah, of course.\u201d It just comes out\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> What did you think?<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Very good (laughs).<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> It\u2019s a bit\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Not so much for her, maybe.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yeah. It\u2019s kind of\u2026 There are two feelings, right? One is pride, like\u2026 And the other is like a burden. For me, it\u2019s heavy. Maybe not so much now\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> I think Bego\u00f1a has suffered a lot too.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes. \u201cShe has suffered a lot,\u201d says Isabel. Of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> But well.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And how do you feel now?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Well, that. That overprotection, of course, we\u2019ve all suffered, one way or another. All of us.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Ixabel was starting to get tired, so we said goodbye and started leaving.<\/span><\/p>\n

[In Basque]<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

Arantza and Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> 5, 4, 3, 2, 1\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Good!<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> We all know how to count, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

(Laughs)<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Well, what now? Shall we go? Come on\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Agur.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Using her as an excuse, I came to see you, you see? Otherwise, we\u2019d get caught up in a story\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Let\u2019s see when you come again.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yeah. We\u2019ll see.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> Before I fly away.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Notice how she already knew she was going to fly. And very high, too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Others will probably fly before her.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Stop with the flying\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Beautiful work you\u2019re doing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> That\u2019s what\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel (neighbor):<\/b> It\u2019s beautiful.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> It\u2019s hard to hear this now, right, Bego?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, she talked about flying because she already knew she was terminal. And she passed away, well, four months later.<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Eskerrik asko.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Eskerrik asko\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Arantza:<\/b> Whenever you want\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

[In Basque]<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> Agur, see you soon\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> What a smile.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Of course, you\u2019re recording the whole time\u2026 What a pain. (Laughs)<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Actually, look what this man just told me.<\/span><\/p>\n

Juanlu:<\/b> Are you still carrying that thing on you!?<\/span><\/p>\n

(Laughs)<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> When did I tell you\u2026 What a smile, what a smile the woman had. And have you seen that smile? It\u2019s amazing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isabel:<\/b> And the daughter too, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bego:<\/b> Yeah\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Since we made this story, Isabel hasn\u2019t been the only one to die.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Two months later, after this talk, your brother Jon passed away.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes. They overlapped in the hospital, both in palliative care. It\u2019s true. He was already bad, and well, that\u2019s it, I\u2019m alone now. These things\u2026 My brother would have liked to hear this, it would have been very good.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Really?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> He, as the older brother, received all the plaques, the medal of merit or whatever\u2026 He also said the day he was gone, it would be for me. So, well, I have them displayed in Navarra, at the Casa de Navarra. And well, that\u2019s it, I\u2019m alone now.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> I was thinking your brother was like the guardian of your sister\u2019s memory and now it\u2019s you.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> So somehow this was our last chance to understand what happened with your sister\u2019s story and to discover those things we didn\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Honestly, I find it incredible that a story that has made us travel so much ends up back here in Lasarte.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> That\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yeah. It\u2019s true, after all you\u2019ve uncovered and asked about and\u2026 After all the turns you\u2019ve taken, that we ended up here in Lasarte.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And in Isabel\u2019s kitchen\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> And in Isabel\u2019s kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> \u2026 Isabel\u2019s kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, yes, yes. It deserved to end in her kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> It deserved to end in her kitchen.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> And with a memory of her. Of course. Of course.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/b>[Music]<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> She was named after me<\/span><\/i> is a production of Se Habla Producciones\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> \u2026 in co-production with EITB Media\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> \u2026 and with the support of the Ministry of Culture, funded by the European Union\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Next Generation EU.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Next Generation EU.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Great.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> E-U.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> E-U.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Is it E-U?<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> E-U.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> E-U.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> And now some very long credits are coming.<\/span><\/p>\n

This series was directed, researched, and written by me, Isabel Cadenas Ca\u00f1\u00f3n. Xuban Intxausti first told me about Bego\u00f1a, helped with the production, and together we developed the initial story. Paula Morais has been with us from the start as assistant editor, production assistant, and much more. Marta Mart\u00ednez was the editor of this series. Cris Tena coordinated production. We also had a team of advisors on political and narrative issues: Ana Useros, Pablo Romero, and Vanessa Rousselot. Fact-checking was done by Jos\u00e9 Molina and Clara Jim\u00e9nez from the Maldita.es foundation. Rebeca Hern\u00e1ndez and Queralt Castillo supported with documentation. I handled the sound design, and Yago Mend\u00edvil did the final mixing. The voice recordings took place at Isol\u00e9 Divisi\u00f3n Sonora, and the recordings for episode 7 at Ulu Estudios in Lasarte. The series illustrations were created by Carmen C\u00e1ceres. Art and graphic design were by Sandra Soler Peyton. Communication was managed by Mar\u00eda Zuil. And I save the music for last because it deserves a special mention. The soundtrack was composed by Maite Larburu, who is from Hernani \u2014 a town that used to be the same as Lasarte. The theme music was composed by Maite Larburu and Vega Montero, and Paula Morais created the music for the previews. Cris Tena and Vanessa Rousselot produced the previews themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

This has been a three-year project with so many people to thank that they can\u2019t all fit here, so we have included your names on our website. Special thanks to everyone who listened to the 50-minute versions of the episodes, those who participated in listening groups in Madrid and Bilbao, and the spaces that hosted us: Espacio Latte and Okapi. Most of all, thanks to Izaskun P\u00e9rez, who pushed this project forward like only a true friend can \u2014 a friend who knows a lot about audio.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you liked <\/span>She Had My Name<\/span><\/i>, please help us share this story with more people. Recommend it to anyone you want, and tell them they can now listen to the entire series. If you\u2019re curious to learn more, our website offers extra material about the episodes: photos from the time, documents, and much more at deesonosehabla.com, in the extra materials section of each episode. You can also subscribe to our channels on any audio platform, and even leave us a review.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Bego, do you want to say your own credits?<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> Yes, of course. Isabel, I want to thank you with all my heart for all the work you have done, for all your effort and investigation\u2026 Of course, thanks to everyone you interviewed, who accepted to talk and share everything they knew, all that important information\u2026 I thank them with all my heart for helping you make this documentary possible. And, of course, your team \u2014 your wonderful team who stood by you, whom I have met and are lovely people. So, thank you very much to all of you.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Mila esker, Bego. Thank you especially for daring to do this, for taking my hand and moving forward without hesitation, with your eyes closed.<\/span><\/p>\n

B:<\/b> With eyes closed. It has been a pleasure. You know it\u2019s hard for me, it has been hard, but I admit it has been a pleasure. And you helped me bring out all these things I had inside.<\/span><\/p>\n

I:<\/b> Mila esker.<\/span><\/p>\n

Thanks to our loyal and generous community, and thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Milla, milla esker. Ta milla esker entzuteagatik.<\/span><\/p>\n

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